PRAWY.TV

Dr. Bagieński o stosunku komunistów do narodowców

Gościem PRAWY.TV był dr Witold Bagieński z Archiwum Instytutu Pamięci Narodowej – współautor książki „Konfidenci” wydanej przed Editions Spotkania.

Jan Bodakowski: – Czy schemat pojawienia się w polskim Internecie, w polskich środowiskach narodowych, grupy, która podszywając się pod ruch narodowy odwołuje się do propagowania politycznej narracji rosyjskiej jest czymś nowym w naszej polityce czy pojawiało się już w czasach PRL?

dr Witold Bagieński: – Moim zdaniem to już pojawiało się już dawno, np. historia stowarzyszenia Zjednoczenia Patriotycznego Grunwald. To jest środowisko bardzo zakotwiczone w komunizmie, a jednocześnie nastawione w taki sposób narodowo-komunistyczny. Więc gdzieś to ciągnęło się przez te lata. Obserwując polską scenę polityczną przez te lata, gdzieś te środowiska widziałem i to utożsamianie endecji ze stanowiskiem prorosyjskim gdzieś się tam zawsze ciągnęło i niektórzy wyciągali z tego dużo większe wnioski niż to było warto.

– Jaka była polityka po II wojnie światowej komunistów, Sowietów w stosunku do ruchu narodowego? Był to przyjazny stosunek czy negatywny?

Trzeba brać pod uwagę to, że kierownictwo Stronnictwa Narodowego znajdowało się za granicą. Prezes Tadeusz Bielecki współtworzył rząd emigracyjny i był tam jedną z ważniejszych figur. Cały krąg jego współpracowników to byli ludzie, którzy byli na emigracji. W związku z tym endecja czy szerzej – te środowiska narodowe, żołnierze Narodowych Sił Zbrojnych, żołnierze służący w kampaniach wartowniczych na Zachodzie były uznawane na osoby wrogie.

Po drugie w okresie stalinowskim oprócz operacji „Cezary” była też operacja o kryptonimie „Ośrodek”, która bardziej jest znana jako afera Bergu. Jest to historia, w której Urzędowi Bezpieczeństwa, a w zasadzie sowieckim służbom udało się spenetrować i rozbić ośrodek wywiadowczy, w którym kluczową rolę odgrywali ludzie związani z endecją. Osobą która to ujawniła to był Kazimierz Tychota, uczestniczył tam Edward Sojka, cała masa znanych nazwisk i generalnie tu endecja była celem. Natomiast potem to się to wszystko zmienia.

Myślę, że trzeba przede wszystkim przebadać co się działo w latach 60. i 70. Dlatego, że wydaje się, że tam środowiska narodowe były bardziej podzielone niż wcześniej jeżeli chodzi o stosunek do kraju. Poza tym mamy też część tych endeków, którzy wrócili do kraju, a wcześniej podjęli współpracę ze służbą bezpieczeństwa. Mamy np. Jana Matłachowskiego czy Witolda Olszewskiego z pisma „Nowe Horyzonty”, którzy jednak byli współpracownikami Służby Bezpieczeństwa. Te rzeczy częściowo opisywał Sławomir Cenckiewicz w artykule „Endekoesbecja”.

Natomiast myślę, że to jest coś co należałoby badać współcześnie dalej. Dlatego, że wychodzą nowe materiały, poznajemy nowe historie i tak naprawdę bardzo wielu rzeczy jeszcze nie wiemy. To jest jeszcze kwestia czasu, żeby wgłębili się w to historycy, dziennikarze, badacze i wtedy będziemy wiedzieli jak to wyglądało, przynajmniej w jakimś zakresie.

– Jak był stosunek był Sowietów pod koniec II wojny światowej i po niej do ruchu narodowego? Czy można powiedzieć, że była prowadzona polityka celowego przetrzebiania tego środowiska?

Niewątpliwie tak. Miarą tego jaki był stosunek jest też fakt, że Stronnictwo Narodowe nie zostało uznane za partię, która ma prawo działać w Polsce Ludowej, w przeciwieństwie do Stronnictwa Ludowego, SD. Były próby zalegalizowania Stronnictwa Narodowego, ale one były z góry skazane na niepowodzenie, nie było takiej możliwości, żeby komuniści do tego dopuścili. Do tego dochodzi również cała czarna legenda, jaką stworzono podziemiu narodowego.

– Bardzo dziękuję.

Rozmawiał Jan Bodakowski.

Not.IF

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